This is from igls80. asking me about reality. So i asked him if I could share it on the blog, so that others can get reality of some the electronics...
Hello Thanx for Your good answer. Ok Looks like I got bustet a little bit. I pulled 6 awg wires by myself (Installation kit included 12 or 10 awg wires.) I have 160 amp alternator Had problems with ground but now I have it better and my HHO produces on 40 amp like 3 LPM, for my N-14 engine (14.0 liter) Its not enough, so I dont see any difference I have it or not. so how big Pulse modulator do I need? that I can see difference and get some savings. Those guys keep tellin me that there are alot big rigs with their HHO drivein without problems. I can Buy another HHO to hook them togather, but first i would like to try pulse modulator. dont know what is better for me. PLEASE HELP! My address will be in NYC from 11/2 - 11/15. thats where I would like to recive ure modulator. thanx again for so much information, I'll try to understand what you just explaned to me... thanx again. Now I feel much stronger...
I think for the pwm to get to your location now is going to be to difficult, because you have waited 5 days to respond to us..
And, your not clear on the concept of the pwm I am certain. (i explain below) A pulse width modulator does not use power. Just transports it like cargo. Its rating is set for its maximum amount of amps that can be transported. Dont worry I know your power source. 160amp.
When you make hydrogen fuel in your electrolyser cell, the current is being pulled inside the cell. That is the part that uses power. Not the pwm. The pwm is just a mhz operator, that acts as radio, to bounce the power inside the cell. In a plate to plate cell, this is necessary so as to move atoms faster after they have been seperated of. Water is 1 atom oxygen, and 2 atoms hydrogen in each molecule. What the cell is doing, is seperating those atoms.
steam is nothing to be concerned about. (so what) So as I said before, do not listen to those people you did purchase the cell from. They do not care about teaching you anything of true thermodynamics. The plates are likely to be the size as I said they were. Since the box is 4 inches the 2 inch part of the plate would fit very well there inside that part of it, or even the 5 inch side of the black box.
So, you can utilize the rest of those plates, that is not being used. - - - see below,
I shall give you example ok of why you can go to higher amps. Whats going on inside the black box? The area of plate being arced with fire is very small for each amp of current. If you throw 40 amps to the cell, the area of plate being actually used in arcing fire is about .28 sq inch of plate. So, if you have plates that are 7 inches by 2 inches, your not using hardly any of those plates. The reason why your being told such things (steam) is because they would like to sell you what you dont need.- Now, the area of .28 sq inch is very very small yes. BUT, if you run constant this 40 amps on only an area of plate that is 1/16 inch thick by .28 sq inches flat, it would burn a hole eventually in the positive plate, in about 200 miles. Thus there would be nothing left of that small area 1/16 inch thick of plate. So you have an area of steel inside that cell that is aproximate 98.00 sq inches in truth. 2 by 7 inch plates. Thus that is the amount of square inch area of inch, per 2 plates. 14 divided by 2. Positive and Negative.
You must therefore understand how the cell is operating, before you can know its options. Now there is one other thing as to what will happen when you apply the more amps. The size of area will change to .56 sq inch. About 1/2 sq inch. Saying 80 amps you are going to apply. This will cause more heat also. Now, the intelligence in building a cell is to provide enough steel to absorbe the running of these amps so that the plates last long enough for the purchase and use of itself. Pleasing the customer, oh it lasts long time.
So they give you 98 sq inches. For the arc of fire. Your only using currenty, .28 sq inch per 200 miles say. The cell will last 70000 miles. IF it were to untilize entire area of plate all the way to nothing left. Running @40 amps. First, i will say this, even in math of area of plate, the problem is, there is not regression mathematics done on this. To arrive at this figure above. HEAT is the other part of that math, that reduces life of the cell. So to be honest with you, you would be considered lucky if it last anywhere near this long as I mentioned here to you, of which it wont.
But you can speculate that if you double the amps, 35000 miles instead of 70000 miles, will the cell still last aprox max. . IN HONEST TO YOU, the cell will only last 1/4 of this time that long, if that long. Because you will see the differences in the amounts of hydrogen being made as it is used up. Perfomance dropping. In ANY CASE. - When you see this, normaly no one waits to pull it out and have maintains done on it by replacing postive plates inside. The negative plates never need replacing. FACT. For you to do your maintain yourself, you will need 7 new plates for that 14 plate cell that you have. IF, you can take it apart without breaking it.
And please, the thing about steam is that yes, it makes steam when you apply more heat from amps. (so what) - It hurts nothing. Believe me, you want the heat and the amps. Without it, you cannot make more fuel quicker.
That is normal science. FACT. Even if we dont want the steam, just the fuel. Some nuts of the world that know nothing of what they speak about because they dont study true thermodynamics. So when you speak to them, know that it is as I have said. They are learning. Let them, but you yourself dont have time to wait. You need fuel now.
Thermodynamics is not the easy subject. Some do not really know how long your cell will last Edgar. Not as I aproximate do. Nor do they know the measure of arc of the amps. You may honestly, get about 7000 miles out of that cell at most. By then it will be torn up from operation. . At about that point of driving, you want to put power plates back inside it. Then reinstall the cell. IF the housing is worth it? <<< This is why we like (tc3Hydro) 1/4 inch thick. (LASTS for those many maintains) the housing. So that it can again give you that maximum performance. No one is going to run a cell to its end of its steel life. Not even half that amount is safe. What happens if you do leave it installed, running it say the full 35000 miles, you would have short circuts and trouble with it constant frying the fuses and breakers in your truck. Because the steel would touch itself once it falls apart that badly. So do not think you can drive around with it for that long. Pull it out at the first sign of troubles....
For your information also, IRON OXIDE is not rust. That means, some are saying something that is not true. All electrolysers obtain IRON OXIDE inside them. Its like a red brownish color. It can only turn to rust from air touching it. Since electrolysers plates are constantly covered under water, how can any air ever touch them? CANNOT. And if that is so, that means IRON OXIDE cannot turn to rust. It stays Iron Oxide. Harmless. And the photos on their website of the 316 steel plates that they speak about, is a bunch of nonsense and not true at all what they are saying to people. They show 5000 miles they say are on those plates. Yet the plate photographed in the picture, The good one, 316 like they say it is, is bran new. It was never inside a cell or used even. So therefore, it did not have 5000 miles on it. But it certainly looks good.
I know, because I know thermodynamics. all 316 steel gets Iron Oxide ebeded on it after use discoloring to it. Honestly, ask us, we tell truth. There is nothing to be afraid of about truth. Iron Oxide is harmless under water. hurts no one, nor the steel. It is the liars that hurt people in this world. Our cells are made with both, 316 and 310 ss. The 316 lasts longer yes, but it does dissipate same as also all the others. All steel does this, any types. EVEN 316.... It is a fact.
So now you have some honest true science study on the subject. For your education, From the truth of science.
You can find links on our site, that will lead you to correct informations about true thermodynamics. Goverment links. One of those sites, is NASA. This is our main source of our study here at www.thermodynamic.us, since they are the ones, that flew all the way to the moon on hydrogen. WE use them to get our knowledges.
www.truecarpentry.org/thermodynamics/thermodynamicspartspg.htm < on this page, half way down the page, is called the tc3Hydro. #32996 item number that you want. Buy now button below it. GET Just one of them for right now, Since you dont have the High Power Source yet. But in truth, you want 2 of them. And the cell you already have.
Use the top link for tcHydro item for car, pickup truck or suv.....
Hello Daniel, > > Thanks for the response, When the unit arrived the wires were not > connected > as shown in the photos and the shunt was rattling inside the box. When I > power the unit as described in the wiring directions, the LED lights up > and > I get a variable voltage output that can be controlled via the Pulse Width > knob. The display is blank and appears to have no power going to it. Is > the > black and white wire for power and ground and if so which side, the motor > or > the battery side. The wiring directions do not discuss the shunt or how it > should be mounted and wired, could you please provide a diagram or photo > of > the hookup. Where do the blue and green wires go? > > Thank you, > > Dave >
Ok Dave, first we must say, that the photos of the unit are blurry photos.... But we do believe that the blue and green wire are for reading of the amps to the meter. (Input) See attached photo... Amps. There should be positive and negative to the meter also.... To power the meter. That has to be the black and white one of which you show hanging out, and is soldered to a small transformer chip that reduces voltage 12v dc down to the 5 volt dc required by the meter for its own power... The color wire going to that chip is and should be Positive. You can verify that color blk or white, by checking the other side, making sure you see the red wire from the meter going to the same transformer chip also. That one, would be your positive connection color wire to attach to the circut board positive connection terminal. Use the schematic sent for the PWM and photo attached here to help you understand, as to positive and negative terminal connections on the board. The other wire is to be Ground... Connect that to negative on the board. Negative on the Board should also be connected to metal negative on the vehicle auto or truck. Or Motor ground... There are several positive terminals and negative terminals on the board itself Also to help. This is where you connect up at. Also to connect power the pulse width modulator.
The blue and green are to go to the big metal object called a shunt. (Input) They go to the two smaller tiny philips head screws on the shunt itself.... And should of been connected already for you...!!! The large screws on the shunt are for your item that you will measure the amps of and pulse width to it... The Pulse width modulator must be attached, with power also.... So, you must install your own power wire to the pwm unit by way of a jumper wire etc, from the large screw on the shunt if you are using positive measure wire for your readings, also to the positive terminal on the board. Or the pwm itself does not function.. If your using a negative side connection to the shunt, then do not connect the positive wire JUMPER WIRE, White in the photo above, such as your wire coming from the positive of your own battery or supply source. In this case, use a straight connect from source. We normaly use amp meters and pulse cells on the positive side so we just use a short jumper wire to the positve... From the Large Screw on Shunt, to Positive on the Board. In this case, The other Positve wire would come from this same position going to the cell, or positive out. Only if you read with positve wire from device you are pulsing, can you connect this short jumper wire... Treat the Cell as if it is a motor in the poor directions you claim them to be that we sent you.... We are sorry for this, as some people are not so electronic oriented in electronic connections. But then again, this unit has several options for circut hookups, depending on how one wants to measure their own electrolyser cell itself, by way of negative or positive side type. Or amps in and amps out side.
(example positive side type connect) The cell would hook up onto the shunt, via one side only, such as your 12vdc power source red to large screw, one side, then red to the cell from other large screw on the shunt... The metal in between the shunt just carrys the power straight through it, only to input the meter....Negative connection should then go to the negative on the pwm board, from the negative of the cell or motor itself... Under this type application, you can use a short red jumper wire from the Large Screw on the Shunt, to power the Pulse Width Modulator....
If you want to measure and pulse negative side of the cell, then do not use the Jumper wire from the Large Screw to Positive on the Board.But Power the Pulse Width Modulator Separately with a straight to it wire from the Power Supply.. Of course, then the Shunt would have only Black Negative wires to the Large Screws on the Shunt from Negative of Vehicle, then to the Cell....
The reason we do not attach the shunt to the plastic box, is because of high amps one may want to run. In which case, the shunt should be placed outside the plastic box, to keep it cooler and not burn up the plastic box. Caution we advise on how many amps is to much. We would and should proclaim on this 50 amp pwm, that 35 is limit, over 35, move it outside the box.